Evo V beat down stage rally car to street machine build thread

[ElDopesta]

Any updates for us buddy?

The sun should have been up in Texas some time ago!!!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

WOW! Great project and has came along loads hats off to ya buddy keep up the good work

Thanks so much!

Probably due to it having been neglected for so long buddy.

They are know to corrode / clog up.

Have you tried removing them completely and inspecting them?

Might be a good idea to remove them and see what type of flow you have by bleeding once they are off. Be sure to have a container handy for the overflow.

Hopefully there will be a pressurised flow once they are removed.

If that is the case then what you want to do is get someone to go for a slow manual depresion on the pedal when you have a decent flow coming through.

Whilst that someone is performing that task, you will need get the outer nipple back in place and nip it up real fast. It should work out just fine as long as the timing is synchronised. This needs to be done between the time that the pedal is just starting to go down and before it hits the floor.

If that does not work then you will have to remove the Calliper(s) and bench it / them once more.

I presume that the problem is only on the rears right???

Where the Pistons moving freely when the Callipers were off???

Thanks for the help! I completely removed the outside bleeder valves on both sides and no fluid came out at all, even while pumping the brakes. The pistons did move freely when they were taken out and the seals were replaced. I'm quite confused on this issue. The inside bleeder valves work perfectly.

 

[ElDopesta]

What is the flow like through the inside valves?

Is there any fluid coming through?

If so, is it a miniscule amount coupled with air or straight flow fluid?

Is there any discolouration in the fluid?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

What is the flow like through the inside valves?

Is there any fluid coming through?

If so, is it a miniscule amount coupled with air or straight flow fluid?

Is there any discolouration in the fluid?

Flow on the inside ones feels normal. A few bubbles the first time, then just fluid. I would have to try again tomorrow to see about the coloring as I was using a solid vacuum line into a bottle with dirty fluid.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

I think we figured it out! My calipers were assembled wrong before I got them. The bleeder valves are both supposed to towards the top. On mine the outsides are towards the top but the insides are towards the bottom. I will have to split them in half, swap the inside halves, and reassemble them.

 

[ElDopesta]

You've upgraded to Brembo's right?

They look like someone's had a go at recon on them. Was it you? They are sided so need to go back together the right way. If they are put in the same box or something the sides can easily get mixed up and get reassembled wrong, as in, one half of the right side getting reassembled to one half of the left side.

As I'm not too clear on exactly what you have tried and not tried, this is what I advise and it is going to be the quickest way to get to the root of the problem, in minutes.

Here's what I would like you to do:

Conduct a quick inspection of the brake lines from the front to the rear in order to ensure that they have not been modified or capped by the Rally Team as per the former drivers request. Sometimes they make strange modifications......

If there are no such modifications in place then it's time to move on:

Check the inner and outer nipples are both facing the same way, as in they are opposite each other.

If they are, you now need to remove the brake line on one of the rear Calipers via the banjo and check the flow when the pedal is being pumped. If the brake fluid is flowing real good then pinch the line and then commence to remove the line via the banjo on the opposite side and repeat the exact same process on that side.

If both are flowing great then remove both calipers and bench them for the final part of the process, which is:

Remove both inner and outer nipples and then, using a pressurised airline, force air in through the inner nipple and see if it's either getting full on back pressure or if it's trying to exit through the outer nipple. At this stage, you will need to ensure that the piston is held in position so that the air has only one path to take.

If the galleries are clogged internally, hopefully the air pressure should help to ease any clogging within them.

Repeat the same process over again via the outer nipple.

There are only 3 possible scenarios here:

1. Brake line or lines are clogged or capped.

2. Caliper or Calipers are clogged.

3. They have been split / reassembled incorrectly. As they are sided.

It's an RS so there's no ABS system to blame.

 

[ElDopesta]

I think we figured it out! My calipers were assembled wrong before I got them. The bleeder valves are both supposed to towards the top. On mine the outsides are towards the top but the insides are towards the bottom. I will have to split them in half, swap the inside halves, and reassemble them.

So you're telling me that I've spent the best part of 40 minutes on my phone trying to tap on a tiny key pad, the best possible way of getting to the route of your problem, only to now discover that you had already posted up what I thought the issue was in the first place?

Charming! :wtf:

 

[ElDopesta]

Problem solved though, that's the main thing!!!

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

The rear caliper halves are indeed assembled wrong and they were like that when I bought them.

Here is the rundown on my brake system. The car was a full stage rally car that came from the factory as a RS LHD with the Brembo brake upgrade. However it was missing the rear brakes when I bought it. Also it and had custom brake lines that ran through the inside of the car, without a proportioning valve. I bought a set of used rear VIII calipers, new pads, new rotors, stainless steel lines, and replaced the stock hard lines and proportioning valve. I then rebuilt all 4 calipers by popping out the pistons with compressed air, installed new seals and dust covers, and painted the calipers. I never split the caliper halves.

Now that I am experiencing this issue it has revealed that the rear VIII calipers that I bought had previously been split in half and were reassembled with the sides mixed up because on each caliper I have 1 bleeder valve towards the top and one towards the bottom. I am going to have to take them apart, swap halves, and put them back together. I have never taken a caliper down this far and in my research so far everyone says not to. However it has already been done so I really have no choice. Has anyone done this before? Any tips or link to thread where people have?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

So you're telling me that I've spent the best part of 40 minutes on my phone trying to tap on a tiny key pad, the best possible way of getting to the route of your problem, only to now discover that you had already posted up what I thought the issue was in the first place?

Charming! :wtf:

Haha! Apparently. If it makes you feel better, I'm typing on my phone too! I really appreciate your help though!

 

[ElDopesta]

LOL!

I'm on my PC now so things should be a lot faster.

It's relatively easy to strip them down completely and then rebuild them.

I have done it quite a few times in the past.

It will take a lot longer to explain the entire process so lucky for the both of us, I have the following link to offer you, ENJOY:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1HfJwB2rsY


Please do let me know how you get on.

If you get stuck, you know exactly where I am......

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Any idea on the torque specs for the bolts that hold the halves together?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Ok, I got the halves swapped and everything back together, it was actually a quick and easy job. I broke the 6mm 4 Allen head bolts loose before taking the calipers off. Swapped insides, reinstalled, and bleed again. This time they bleed correctly and the pedal felt nice and firm.... Until I started the car. Once the car was running the pedal had very little resistance and the brakes felt about the same as they did before, very week. I'm thinking now that it's actually going to be a vacuum issue of some sort, although I'm glad I was able to find and fix the calipers as well. Any ideas on what to check? I'm getting 16 hg of vacuum at idle.

 

[ElDopesta]

Sorry for getting back to you so late but this is the first chance I've had to log in all day.

The Vacuum pressure is about bang on IMO.

Personally, I tighten them to what I feel is about right. Something you need to have a knack for.

If you have a small Tourque Wrench then you need to go for around 25Nm to 30Nm and no more.

I think I know why you a spongy pedal buddy!:

I suggest that you bleed all 4 Calipers again from scratch and once done, before you start the car, pump the pedal around 5 to 10 times and pull the hand brake up and down around 5 to 10 times whilst doing so.

Unless there's a leak on the Servo, which I very much doubt, that should be the end of the matter.

 

[ElDopesta]

Any updates for us buddy?

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Sorry for getting back to you so late but this is the first chance I've had to log in all day.

The Vacuum pressure is about bang on IMO.

Personally, I tighten them to what I feel is about right. Something you need to have a knack for.

If you have a small Tourque Wrench then you need to go for around 25Nm to 30Nm and no more.

I think I know why you a spongy pedal buddy!:

I suggest that you bleed all 4 Calipers again from scratch and once done, before you start the car, pump the pedal around 5 to 10 times and pull the hand brake up and down around 5 to 10 times whilst doing so.

Unless there's a leak on the Servo, which I very much doubt, that should be the end of the matter.

Thanks again for the help! I will be bleeding them all again next chance I get. I doubt I'll have time tomorrow as I have to take a break from working on the Evo to get my race car ready for a Rallyx on Sunday. I will update this thread once they have all been bleed again.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Ok, I had some time to bleed all 4 brakes, all 8 bleeder valves, using the factory method. I think pumped the brakes 10 times before starting the car and the pedal felt nice and firm. I also worked the hand brake, even though that is a separate mechanical system. Afterwards I took it for a drive and it felt the same. Brakes are very weak and the pedal is very mushy.

 

[ElDopesta]

What was the fluid like when you were bleeding the system?

I suggest that you inspect the Servo & surrounding areas for leaks.

Is there a Brake Stopper fitted?

If there are no leaks, drive it over short distances for the next couple of days or so, whilst braking agressively every now and again.

Keep an eagle eye on the Fluid Reservoir, you need to make sure it's at the same level throughout, for obvious reasons......

There are several reasons as to why the pedal could be spongy:

1. Weak or leaking Servo / Master Cylinder.

2. Solid Pistons / Binding Calipers

3. Poor Bleeding.

4. Brake Line(s) issue(s)

Vacuum pressure seems fine from what I can remember so if there is no leak or cracks / fractures on / to the Servo, you'll just need to drive it and take it from there.

Which Pads have you gone for, please don't say Pagid / Green Stuff / Red Stuff???

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

It's been a while since I updated this thread and a lot of progress has been made! Most notably I scraped all 7 layers of old paint off, sprayed the whole exterior with white plastidip, installed EvoBits polyurethane mudflaps, and swapped over to an Evo VIII ECU with Tephra V7!

What do you guys think of the red mudflaps? Too much or just right?